- July 17, 2020
- Posted by: august19
- Category: Podcast
Along the way, in our investing journey, there will come a time where we will hit a wall and feel like we can’t move forward anymore. Good thing that we are not alone with this feeling. We can always look up to other investors who have gone through similar paths and learn from them. Dedicating this episode to those investors who needed that guidance and push to continue on in their journey, Chris Seveney takes us back in time and shares with us his own story of how he got into note investing, offering wisdom for newer investors in the business to overcome that roadblock. Pointedly, Chris shares his why—why he chose to get into this business and why he continues to do what he does—and how he does what he does. Dive into this great episode to allow Chris to give you the hope and the confidence you need to continue moving forward. Let’s backtrack in time in this conversation.
Listen to the podcast here:
Chris Seveney’s Investing Journey: From Buying Notes To Starting A Note Business
I want to take a step back in time. What I mean by that is I’d like to go back and talk about how I got into note investing. I was thinking over the past week or so, reading a lot of information from newer investors in the business and hearing their stories about how they’ve gotten involved and discussing what is this person’s why. It made me think that I haven’t done an episode in a long time about my ‘why’ and how I have gotten into this business? Why I continue to do what I do? Why I still work full-time? How I do what I do? That’s what I wanted to talk about. I want to share my story and tell you where I’ve been because it’s going to be helpful for a lot of investors out there and give you hope because we all hit these times where we feel like we can’t do it or get it done. I also want to give you the confidence to continue moving forward.
The Beginning: First Investment
Let’s backtrack in time. I’m going to start out in 2012. The reason I went back to 2012 was that’s when I made the switch to work for a residential developer. I was working for a general contractor for fifteen plus years. I was down in DC area and I made that transition to work for a developer. I was going to be overseeing their multifamily department. It was a new division of the company that I was going to be overseeing. The project I was going to start working on was high-end condos. It was 60 high-end condos outside of Washington DC. The average sales price is about $2.5 million to $3 million. Some notable people ended up living in this building from what you’ve seen on the news and forth.
The reason I went back in time to that was when I started working for a developer, the entrepreneurial spirit of developers compared to working for a general contractor is huge. It’s very different because I was working 60, 70 hours a week for a general contractor and managing 50 plus subcontractors. It wears on you significantly. I’ve gotten burnt out. On the development side, people are much more creative in the sense of how to get deals done and how to make the numbers work. I was overseeing one general contractor who had the 50 subs. I only had to yell at one person. I didn’t have to yell at 50 from that perspective. Except it was two because it was also the architect too. I could take my years of frustration out on when I was working for a general contractor.
You get to see the difference because a lot of people I worked with on the development side also had their own properties and they had their own rentals. My boss at that time owned probably a half dozen rentals out in the San Diego market. He had bought them at the downturn in 2008 and 2009. He knew that values in 2012 were still sliding a little bit, but he knew we were sitting on a gold mine. He had saved up his money and buying them. That was his cashflow for his retirement. I was in my mid-30s, I hadn’t thought too much about retirement because I was still figuring, “I’m 30 years away from it.” It did get me thinking and it got me onto the website of BiggerPockets and some of these other websites. First thing I did like everybody else is read the book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, which is inspirational in the sense of getting you to think about alternative investments. The 9:00 to 5:00 is not going to cut it for you.
The first investment that I made was my wife and I wanted to build our primary residence. We scoured the Washington, DC area. We had come to the conclusion that we’re going to buy a property where the existing house on the property, we’ll knock it down and build our house. I remember we were looking for a long time. We were living in a townhouse with two kids and a little cramped. We were looking and we wanted a big yard like what’s considered big in Washington, DC, we want at least a half-acre, which that’s humongous in this market. Typical lots are 5,000 maybe 10,000. You can get to certain areas like McLean, which is ultra-wealthy where you can get an acre but you’re probably spending close to $1 million for that lot which was not in our price point.As investors, we all hit times where we feel like we can't do the job anymore or get it done. Click To Tweet
We were scouring around and we found a 1-acre lot. This little blue ranch house that has a nice flat lot. We came and looked at it. It was very well-priced and what we ended up finding out was the listing agent listed it little low-end and it was getting bids. The bids I think was around $50,000 to $100,000 above the asking price. At the time we were like, “No.” The interesting component to that was, and we’re speaking with a neighbor about the neighborhood and we said, “We went after it but we’re probably not going to get it.” They said “What about the three houses up? That one is for rent, but the woman wants to sell it.”
My wife goes and knocks on the door and ends up striking a deal right then and there for this house. It’s a similar nice flat 1-acre lot. It was in a better location because the other one was right next to a stream that had some wetlands issues where our property does back up to a stream but only a very small area in the back and it’s not wetlands. It’s just we can’t cut trees down in that area. Why I consider that our first investment was we bought the property for a lot. We had the home inspection. The home inspector is laughing at us because we said we didn’t care. “The bank needs it because we’re going to knock this down.” He said, “I hear that story many times,” but we were serious about it.
We ended up spending about eight months designing our house to exactly what we wanted. We are going to act as the general contractor and truth be told, my wife was the one running the job. At the time, she was extremely hardnosed and was able to get people to get stuff done from that perspective. She’s amazing at getting people to get stuff done. We started construction in July and we moved in December. We fast-tracked that project. Originally, we were going to move in after February, but my wife in October said, “Screw this. I want to be in, in December.” We got it done. The reason why it was our first investment is because it’s what set the stage. We act as a contractor, we put the sweat equity into it and we had a significant amount of equity in the property when all was said and done because we’d finished it.
We moved in on December 24th of 2013. With that equity, we took a line of credit. I found a rental in a ski community for $20,000. An hour and a half west from us, out in Virginia. It was a bank foreclosure that needed renovation. That first rehab project, we rehabbed it for what we wanted to do versus bare-bones rental. It’s probably the nicest rental you’ll ever see on a $20,000 property. We put in about $25,000 into it. We did the BiggerPockets BRRR strategy, Buy, Rehab, Rent and Refi, which we did. We refinanced and got all our money back out of it and then waited about a year. I got an email from a wholesaler in the area and this one was scary because it was a condo in Silver Spring, Maryland, which is where I work now.
It was like $70,000 but they wouldn’t allow access. It was a lady that lived there and passed away, but there were plenty of pictures you could see and it’s a condo. There’s not much to inspect on it and see the pictures. We had known that we were going to get this thing and do the same thing. I think it was $75,000. We ended up getting it for like $70,000 and did the same thing. We turned it around. We ripped everything out. We put all the new outlets in it. We redid the kitchen, the bathroom, the flooring and paint. We put in a new heating system and new windows because the windows were a responsibility of yours and not the condo association. We were all in for about $95,000 and the appraisal comes back at like $140,000.
This BRRR strategy, you can crush it if you manage it yourself. When you’re managing it yourself with two little kids, two full-time jobs, your weekends turn into a disaster. You’re running to Home Depot, Lowe’s picking up equipment, getting stuff for the contractor and walking jobs. After the second one, my wife looked at me and said, “Enough.” Looking back, I agree. At the time, it was a good point for us to take a break. For me, taking a break doesn’t exist. I’m not a big fan of watching TV, especially with everything that I enjoy to do and my goals. I like to be busy. I’m very driven to be the best.
At the same point in time, I had switched jobs to work for a company I currently work for. I’m working for a commercial developer who has apartments. They’re more of the buy and hold strategy and building a project. I was learning the ropes from there but I was trying to figure out, “What’s another way I can try and invest in real estate?” I had a little more time on my hands because the job was not as intense. Real estate is intense. Building condos and stuff can get intense and you have to deal with a lot of stuff. Whereas when it’s apartments and stuff, it’s easier dealing with tenants than it is with condo owners.
In BiggerPockets I stumbled across note investing. I started reading about this and it was weird because I had twenty years and never knew that it existed. I started reading up on BiggerPockets and went through thousands of posts on there. I didn’t read any books. I read a lot of stuff that Dave Van Horn had put out, but it wasn’t any books. He had a lot of great blog posts. At that time, Rob Hytha, on his FIXnotes website had a lot of great information on it. I did take a few virtual training classes at the time, which are helpful and also a bunch of videos on YouTube and other places.
The biggest challenge was first, me grasping the paperwork side because in real estate, I was more involved with actual physical property. Here, you’re dealing more with paper. Understanding the mortgage, the allonge and that whole process. The legal component was probably the hardest part for me. Building the calculator so that you know the cost and everything involved. I went way overboard and built the rocket ship of calculators because I was also in school. I’m still wrapping up a degree in Real Estate Finance from Georgetown and I followed REFM. It’s Real Estate Financial Modeling. Bruce Kirsch has some cool stuff on calculating returns. I took some of his classes online, as part of my schooling and I worked on building that kick-ass calculator that I ended up putting to work.
From Buying The First Note To Having A Note
That’s how I dipped my toes into note investing. The first component to it is like, “How did I get into investing?” I want to talk about how long it took for me to buy my first note. Then go through my first years in the business and talk about that process because one of the things that start with the end in mind is people think that they’re going to start making all this money upfront. That’s the furthest from the truth. I started at the end of 2016 and I didn’t make any money then. In 2017, I didn’t make money. In 2018, I made a little bit of money. In 2019, I made a lot of money. Now, we’re in 2020. I want to talk about that process because I think it’s important for people to hear a lot of this and get an understanding for the process itself and what it takes.When people think of investing, they think that they're going to start making all this money upfront. That's the furthest from the truth. Click To Tweet
Going from being a note investor, which is somebody who buys a note here and there to having a note business because there is a contrasting difference between the two. I’m going to fast rewind back to 2016. After about six months of doing a lot of research and studying and everything else, finally from Paul Burkett, I pulled the trigger on four notes and I believe it was October of 2016. One of them was in bankruptcy, two performing and one nonperforming. My total acquisition was $25,000 roughly. These were low-balance loans. I was using money from a solo 401(k). I was using my own money which I recommend people do. That was my start.
The first mistake I made was when I was trying to board this with FCI. At the time, I hear people talk about the boarding process to take a few weeks and forth. It was a lengthy period of time. I’ll say five weeks where I still couldn’t get them to respond at all. I am a type-A extremely hyper-intensive individual. I can get very intense. I finally blew up. I could not get them to even reply to an email or reply to a phone message. I was calling and yelling at them because I couldn’t get them to even respond.
In hindsight being 2020, I was probably a little too aggressive on it. I do apologize for that. At the same token, I’m not disappointed in the sense of I don’t feel I was missing anything by not having their service. I ended up boarding these at SN Servicing which I started boarding these with and go through their process which I thought was much smoother. I had them start working out these loans from that perspective. Unfortunately, my father passed away. When that hit, I wanted to take a pause and break at the time, because I had a lot going on in life.
It took a little bit of pause and then when I got back on the wagon, I started buying a few more assets with my own funds and I had my first investor which was a family member. I did some loans with them and started getting the hang of things. When it comes down to breaking down the basics, it’s like, “You due diligence on checking the property, the assets, the title.” For me, it’s, “I would have an attorney and have MetaSource Orion look at this stuff.” I felt good there. The other component to it is, am I buying it at the right price? Being in real estate where I’m running pro formas on $100,000 properties, existing assets and creative financing stuff, I felt confident with where I was in number wise.
Those two components in having a project management background in managing your vendors felt natural. I probably had about ten assets under my belt and I slowly started working with some other investors. One of the ways I did that was and how I was able to reach them is be honest. I was offering 70/15/15 split. I started out offering 60/40 splits starting to give people a little more. I thought that when you’ve got 100 people doing the same exact thing, how do you differentiate yourself? What is your differentiator? If everybody is selling the same thing, how do you get them at least in the door to talk to you?
That’s the biggest thing is they see people posting on Facebook, BiggerPockets or websites. What is the draw? How do you get them? For me, one was I talk to people and few of my selling points, which are still to this day are, “I’m in note investing to continue to grow and build wealth.” Fortunately for me, I work full-time, which is good and bad. The good is I’m not forced to buy assets. I don’t need to make a deal to continue to put food on my table. I tell people I still talk to now. If I never buy another note in my life, it’s not going to change my life one iota from that perspective. In the same token, because I’m not in it full-time, people sometimes are maybe concerned how much time I can spend on the business, but I think I’ve been able to prove over the last couple of years that I can run a business very efficiently and maximize my time in a useful manner.
Those were several key components from the selling point of how I would bring people in the door. I was reaching out to people who are part of some of the training I was in saying, “If this is something that you don’t think you can take on now, and if you’re looking to partner with somebody, let me know.” I was always upfront and honest with people in the sense of my experience, how many deals I’ve done. I would highlight my strengths. I would highlight my weaknesses. I feel being transparent and honest with people at all times is the best avenue you can take.
I tell my wife this all the time because she says I forget everything. I always tell her, “You know I’m telling the truth because I have enough trouble remembering the truth. I could never remember any of my lies.” Someone mentioned to me that transparency breeds integrity. What they mean by that is when you’re transparent with people and you show them everything, you’re going to want to do the right thing because they have the ability to look over your shoulder. I believe that is also true. I would have to say from a business perspective, I believe I’m very transparent. If anyone asks for something, I’m first to share it or show it. The way I manage my funds and everything, people have access to every note. The system I use, the mortgage office, that’s what I use to put all my comments and my to-do list and everything. People can log in and see it. They can see the good, the bad and the ugly. They have that ability.
From that perspective, I always recommend to be honest with people. If you get yourself in trouble, you need to pick up the phone and call. Far too many times, I hear people like, “I gave this person this much money and they’re supposed to pay me. They won’t answer the phone,” and then all of a sudden, they get an attorney send a letter. The person is then like, “I didn’t even know anything was wrong.” Maybe it’s because you didn’t respond to the 27 emails that were sent. You’re going to have bad deals. Let’s be honest. If you’re in this business long enough, you’re going to have bad deals and you need to step up and make sure that you communicated with people.
The simplest way to avoid being sued in this business is communicate with people and tell them what’s going on. If you’re communicating with people, tell them what’s going on. Can they still possibly move forward on something? They can, but most people probably won’t if you’re communicating with them and you’re doing what you’re saying you’re going to do. If you tell somebody, “I’m going to do this by the state,” and you don’t, that’s one thing. You say, “I’m going to do this by the state,” and you get it done, then things should go much smoother. Back to 2017, I started working with some investors and I started growing the portfolio. Now, I probably have 15, 20 notes that year which at the time I thought was a lot.
People are saying that once you get to twenty, you want to start looking at hiring somebody or bring somebody on board. For me, that was never an option. I like to work alone. It was not bringing somebody in, but hire the best and that’s one of my focuses that I’ve had since I’ve been in this business is to hire the best people. I’ve made a lot of mistakes. I’ve hired people who weren’t the best. I hired people who were cheaper. I’ve used systems from people that were cheaper. They weren’t backed by an entity. It may have been a one-person show. There was a company I was using for a little while and it was two people out of Europe. It was not a wise decision.
I’ve spent a lot of money on systems and trying things that honestly didn’t work. I jumped the gun on it and I would tell people to talk to other people about systems you want to use before actually using them because I’ve thrown away thousands of dollars on stuff that I no longer use. It’s part of the education, part of the learning experience. I feel I grow from it as well. As long as you take something out of it, it’s a painful mistake but it’s still there. Towards the end of 2017, 2018, the business starts to shift. That’s where the whole systems thing comes into play because I was going from being a note investor to having that note business. It is a seismic change.
If I could give anybody any advice, the number one advice I’d give somebody is to hire a bookkeeper. The reason I say that is you are not going to have time and also, anytime there’s a question on something, you’ve got a third party. I think it breeds integrity when you have somebody else doing your books for you and you can run off reports for people. I’ll do a whole other episode about when you’re partnering with somebody, thinks to look for, out for, and things to ask for to confirm the person is who they say they are. That’s something I had on my mind for a little while now.
I’m in that growth. It’s a tough hurdle, especially when you’re working full-time. I know a lot of people out there especially with the COVID crisis going on, you are at home more. You’re trying to find a way to bring in some extra cash, whether it’s for kids’ college, whatever it may be. It’s a struggle because you are trying to grow, but you’re caught in that little conundrum of you’re comfortable where you’re at, but then to make that step, you’ve got to spend money. It sucks because you’re like, “I’ve got to spend the money I’m making, all the money I made to do something,” and it’s scary as hell especially if you’ve never had a business before. I’ve never had a business before. I did have somebody else who I ran a business for somebody. This was like my baby. This was all me.Transparency breeds integrity. Click To Tweet
I was spending money on things that I probably shouldn’t have so that added the salt on the wound. The other conundrum you go through is, do you get the deals or do you get the money? Which one comes first? You find deals or find the money? For me, it was finding the deals. I found that once I had the deals, it wasn’t as difficult as I anticipated on finding people to work with me on them. I was scared because I’m like, “Buying $100,000, am I going to be able to get that funded? What I ended up finding out was that would have deals and I’d have more people interested in the deals than I had deals. When I say this, we’re talking 3 to 5 deals at a time. We’re not talking 25. If you’re doing 25, I’d be honest with you. You’re at a point where it’s going to be extremely difficult to have that many partners, which is why I rolled into the funds.
When you’re doing l3 and 5 at a time, each one is $15,000, $20,000. You start with that and then 3 to 5 turns into 7 to 10 and then they continue to grow. Similar to my growth strategy of making sure I’m not biting off more than I can chew. I started, I bought around 60 notes in 2018, but when I looked at it, I was trying to buy five a month. I wasn’t buying twenty at a time. How do you eat an elephant? It’s by taking one bite at a time. That’s what I thought of is I bid assets, I do the due diligence, get them under agreement, fund them and then once that process took place, which was about a month off to the next one. That’s what I did in 2018. In 2017, I had like 50 notes and forth and any money I did make was going right back towards a business.
I probably bought about 60 notes in 2018. It was similar because as I was growing, I was spending money to enhance the business. I was also spending money on learning and business acumen things as well. Also, you’ve got to realize when you’re buying nonperforming stuff, and most of it was nonperforming, you don’t get paid until the deal closes. If you bought 60 that year, maybe only twenty of them closed out. If you’re buying a $20,000 deal and you’re targeting 25%, almost 12 and 12, that’s $5,000 in profit. That’s only $2,500. If you had twenty of those finished, that’s $50,000 but you’re going to have some that do a little better and some that do worse.
I don’t think I had twenty closed out that year. I probably only had ten. I remember there was a pool from Harbor and eight assets under agreement. It was right before I was going on vacation. I ordered the BPOs and the title reports all at the same time. Combined, it was $300 an asset, there were eight assets. All eight of them were junk trash between title issues and property values. Nothing was even close. Some of them I even had to hire attorneys to review the collateral because it was questionable. I probably was in it for over $3,000 out the window.
When you look at that, that happened two times in a row between Harbor and it may have been to Home Opportunity, but it was another seller as well. In about six weeks, I was out over $5,000 out of pocket. The money I was making was gone. People forget that side of this business that you have costs outside of your deals. You’ll go after a deal and knock it out. I was on helping somebody on a deal that I wanted to go after and they would buy the property, but they still spent $150 on a title report and some other money as well. They probably were in it for like $350. It’s their first deal. It was only like a $7,000 acquisition costs. They’re like, “That sucks. I’m out $350.” It’s going to happen again and again. That’s where your relationship with your sellers and knowing the seller is important. If you’re going to sell, you’re bidding on stuff and every time we do a BPO, it comes back at 50% less. That’s a sign. Maybe you don’t want to bid that person anymore or bid it based on your value because it’s going to be low but at end of the day, you’re not going to win. Do you spend the time?
That was my 2018. I was growing rapidly but it was still in that growth phase of the business. As you’re growing, you continue to make mistakes but you also continue to learn. When you’re buying a lot more assets, you see some crazy stuff which I’ll do case studies on. I can do case studies all day long on stuff. It was eye-opening in that sense.
Moving The Business Forward
The other thing I realized was as we started to turn the tables into 2019 was, “Where is my business going? What am I trying to do?” At the time, I had a good number of investors, and Gail and I were doing some deals together as well. We had launched a podcast. We’re using that for marketing and things were going well.
The 2019 was an exceptional year for me. As I grew through 2019, one of the things that I started to shift and as part of any business, anytime you make a change, you don’t do it overnight. Everything should be planned, time-sequenced and make sure you allow for that time. One of mine was to get out of these individual deals. It was to start looking more at some partials because I saw an appetite and area where I thought it was underdeveloped. thought I could take advantage of it and I have. I’ve got probably about 50 partials that I’ve got going on.
When they’re looking for partials, a lot of people talk to me about it hopefully I’m trying to brand myself as the person to go to for partials. I try and make it as simple as possible for people. The John Hyre Keep It Simple, Stupid type method. As we started to look towards getting out of these deals, you’ve got to look ahead. If I’m doing that, what do I need to do? I was looking at funds. For those who know, a Reg D 506(c) fund is accredited investors. You have to put together an operating agreement, PPM and a presentation slide deck or pitch deck and is a lot more intense. That involves also the legal side of things and getting all that drafted, which can cost around $10,000. The money you’re making all of a sudden is getting it reinvested. My go-to attorney Brian Gallagher, he created for me the 506(c). On the same token, I said, “While you’re at it, let’s create the 506(b) as well. Let’s have both documents that are much on the shelf so if an opportunity comes up that I could, with the 501(c), I can advertise 506(b), just go out to the people I have relationships with that are sophisticated investors as well as accredited and work my magic.”
I did that and it paid off significantly because towards, the middle part of the year, I probably bought 40 or so assets. A pool came out that I took down a pool of 90 assets and by far my largest acquisition ever before that, I did a 30-asset deal and that was a deal that did very well. That one’s already closed out. I did a 90-asset deal and I raised close to $1 million, about $850,000 and pulled the steel in and put in a fund. That fund to this date is doing well. Because of that success, I decided that in 2020, I roll another one out which I have since done. That one is being successful as well.
The reason I mentioned that process is it’s part of the growth path that most people take as you continue with your business and going from a note investor to a note business, but it’s also against mapping out your plan. That’s one of the things that I think I’ve done well to make me successful. I consider myself successful, not in an arrogant way. I think everyone measures around success and for me, I’m meeting or exceeding the goals that I had set forth. That’s one of the biggest components and having that full-time job has made it more challenging because the consistency is not there. I wish it was but unfortunately, my primary job does take priority over this business. I am able to manage what I have because of the systems that I put in place.
That’s what I want to talk about. I probably went a little longer than I thought, but I want to share this with people especially in this COVID crisis. We all have our days and we all get down or something happens to us. It’s something that can be challenging and difficult. We’ve got to pick ourselves up and continue on that path and if you get knocked down, pick yourself back up. That’s what I would tell people. For people who are in this business or getting started in this business, I started a few years ago and didn’t make anything for my first two plus years in this business and then the third year had explosive growth.
Those are the things that you need to take into consideration. I know there are training out there that talk about making whether it’s a $100,000, $250,000 on your first year. I don’t know anyone that’s done it. Can it happen? It can. If you’re looking back to the realistic side of things, you need to be patient. Take your time. Walk before you can run. Understand what’s going on. Most importantly, talk to others. Find people in this space who been around the block, understand the business and talk to them. “Can I run a deal by it? Do you mind taking a look at this? What would you do in this type of situation?”
From my growth, I think that component of, “What would you do in this type of situation?” has been key for me. That’s how we started the podcast. Gail was my black couch buddy. Basically, my therapist where I drive home for work and we would vent to each other. At one point in time, we said, “We should be recording this stuff because this is some crazy stuff. Nobody talks about this stuff.” Everyone talks about like how to bid or how to do due diligence, but nobody tells you what to do when you have a contract for deed and the borrower isn’t paying you. The borrower’s got a tenant in there that’s selling drugs and the city’s calling you to get the person out of there, but you can’t get them out of there because it’s a tenant of the person on the CFD and you have no right to access the property. They want to start finding you. What do you do? Who do you call?
Those are the things that happen every single day. Another example is, you see a lien and the title report is in the first position, but there’s another lien that was recorded the same day. Your lien was $25,000. The other one was $150,000. Yours was a line of credit. Clearly, it should have been a second but accidentally recorded first. The other lien holders filed foreclosure, are you okay? Are you safe because you’re in first? Reality-wise is, no, you’re not because they could sue based on saying that it was recorded incorrectly and probably get a judgment that favors. It might kick you back in the second in the property that doesn’t have equity. Stuff like that can happen and I’ve seen it happen. I’ve been involved in it and if you’re not experienced with it, you want to talk to people about it.The simplest way to avoid being sued in this business is to communicate with people and tell them what's going on. Click To Tweet
That’s my biggest takeaway is talk to people, whether it’s on our Facebook group Notes And Bolts. Whether you want me to have a webinar to talk about some of this stuff. I love talking about notes, you don’t need to twist my arm to talk about it, but stay engaged, involved and be true to yourself. I want to say, thank you for reading. I do appreciate everybody who’s reading the blog. It’s been a great 1.5 year and 100-plus episodes that we’ve recorded. It’s awesome that I find people take value with this and enjoy it. For more information, you can check out the website at 7EInvestments.com. I recommend you join our Facebook group, the Notes And Bolts From the Good Deeds Note Investing Podcast. I do have some exciting news that I’m going to be rolling out that hopefully will be of exceptional value that people can take advantage of and benefit from my experience on. Take care and good luck.
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