- July 22, 2019
- Posted by: august19
- Category: Podcast
It is hard to get away with paperwork issues when it comes to real estate contracts and documents. Patty Ped calls in to talk about a special property she has in a little place in the upper peninsula of Michigan called Mancelona and all the paperwork problems she has with the property. Chris Seveney and Gail Greenberg answer Patty’s questions regarding the assignment of land contract wherein a lot of them are missing the assignment of note or loan. They offer advice regarding the issue and talk about using Orion which is a collateral storage company which can be quite helpful to get you more organized. They also touched on CFD or contract for deeds as they share their experiences about dealing with deeds of challenging clients. Get some answers regarding paperwork issues on contracts as Chris and Gail address some of the most common concerns in this episode.
Listen to the podcast here:
Open Mic Night: Dealing With Real Estate Paperwork Issues
We have a guest who is a friend and note investor. She’s very close to me. She’s a fellow Pennsylvanian from the Harrisburg area. Patty Ped is joining us to talk about a special property she has in a little place in the upper peninsula of Michigan called Mancelona. I’m very eager to hear about the whole thing. Patty, do you want to start from the top?
Chris and Gail, thank you for having me on.
Thank you for joining us.
How are you both doing?
We’re good. It’s a busy day.
What’s happening in your world in the upper peninsula of Michigan?
I bought three CFDs, two in Michigan and one in Mississippi. The Michigan one, the Mancelona, it’s a pretty rural area. They have a horse. I won’t call it a farm but they are equestrians. They used to have a business and it’s a twenty-acre land wooded area. The house is vacant. It’s a contract for deed. I’m trying to get in touch with the owner. It has changed so many hands. There were six or seven companies before ours. I’ve been working on that a little bit, trying to get everything in place and trying to see if I have any original documents and it turned out, I don’t. I did not receive anything. I’m going back and getting that. My question for you both is regarding my other asset, which is in Mississippi, Yazoo City.
I bid on that.
If you bid on it and I won, it probably means I paid too much for it.
You bid on it at a different time. That particular seller is not about competitive bids as we know. It’s whoever bids first.
I’ve seen a pattern. I’m doing collateral reviews from this same seller and I see a pattern where I have the original note but I do not see assignments of these notes.
These are CFDs. Are you saying there was a note initially and then it got turned into a CFD?
When I say note, I have the original deed or land contract between the lender and the borrower. I have an original note between the lender and borrower, which is similar to the land contract but this one talks about the money, how much, what’s the payment, what’s the interest rate and that kind of thing. For all of them, I have assignments of the land contract. Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m guessing that for each change of hands, so to speak, I need to make sure that I have a warranty deed or I could quitclaim deed. The second one would be an assignment of the land contract and the third one would be the assignment of the note or allonge to the note. While I’m doing a financial review, I’ve come across a lot of them have the first two, the warranty deed or the quitclaim indeed and the assignment of the land contract. A lot of them are missing the assignment of note or the allonge. What are your comments on that? Have you come across this? Is this something that I need to rectify?It’s difficult to sell a house on retail after it has been through this mishmash of transfers. Click To Tweet
Interesting enough, I was on the phone with an attorney regarding the same issue, but mine was in Oklahoma.
You have got to have your paperwork straight in Oklahoma.
I’ve talked to Franco about this as well. It’s state-dependent. On land contracts, there are two ways they get issued. There’s the land contract which includes the note language. It’s an all-in-one document. In some instances, it’s a land contract with a separate note. In certain states, the note can sometimes be a confusion factor and the attorneys are like, “We don’t need to know the assignment. If you have the deed with the land contract, you’re good.” In other states, you need to have the note with the assignments and have it recorded and stuff like that. That’s primarily in the states that treat a land contract like a mortgage.
In my experience, that’s very unusual. In Michigan, that is not the case and I don’t think in Mississippi either.
In Oklahoma, Ohio and Maryland, if you have the note along with it, it should be recorded with the allonges and stuff. I don’t know about Mississippi. Do you know Beth Cruikshank, Patty?
Yes, I did get in touch with her. That was going to be my next stop. I’m putting together the document, which is a summary document. I was going to send that over to her next and get her expert opinion on this.
I also had a conversation with Franco about this early on because for whatever reason, when I was first in this business, it seems like everything I bought was in Michigan. He said to me, “Every one of these Window Rock files in general, has a promissory note plus a land contract. They are not both necessary.” Maybe in some places, they might be, but they just confuse the matter because with a land contract in most states, not the picky ones that Chris named, all you need and I’ve originated land contracts and you need a land contract.
If you transfer the property you need to deed it to the new owner and give them an assignment of land contract and that’s it. I’ve seen complicated files where there was originally a borrower who had a note and mortgage and then they either give up the house or they get foreclosed on. The lender immediately creates a land contract and puts them back in the house where they never left the house. You have this giant file that goes back multiple lenders when it was a note and then multiple lenders after it became a land contract.
You could start crying looking through these files, trying to figure out what’s going on. Title reports are very good tracking mechanisms because those abstractors are very used to looking at all this stuff. They often put it in order for you that’s much easier to follow because even the electronic collateral files are often out of sequence. They’ve got older things earlier in the file and things are out of order. It can drive you crazy. What I am thinking is you don’t have to be that concerned at this point because you don’t even know what you’re going to do yet in these. You may never need this and if you do need to get documents replaced or whatever when you’re going to do something legal and you need them, they’re gettable at that point. It’s not like anyone’s going to disappear in the meantime. You don’t have to spend hours and hours trying to sort this all out at this stage. If you had an attorney review this before you bought it, then you should already have an answer about whether you’re okay or not. If you didn’t, then that would give you some peace of mind, by all means, go ahead and let them look at it. If I were you, I wouldn’t be spending my time trying to figure it all out because it is a mess.
Patty, do you keep your collateral or do you start somewhere?
We store them with Orion.
Who do you deal with over at Orion?
I can’t think of the name now.
I want to share with you what will answer your question as well. For every file I send them, they provide this report, which they show the subject property, the land contract information. It’s a chain of title status with complete or broken. They highlight what’s missing. They will go through all the assignments, the deed and everything. Some of these, when there are five, six, seven transactions, they will show every single assignment and then they will show you where it’s broken. It’s similar to a ProTitle report as well where they show it in the middle, but they do a little better job because they will list all the allonges and everything else as well. If you do it with the soft copy and then when they get the actual collateral, the combined charges is $40 or $45. What’s nice too is you may have something in the soft file that doesn’t show up in the hard file.
That’s vice versa. Sometimes they don’t scan everything that’s in the hard file.
They will be like, “This is missing.” I had one that the land contract was missing and it was in the soft files. I went back to John at Direct Source and said, “What happened to the land contract?” This isn’t with Orion. The other thing I will mention to you is the trick I did with Orion. I was missing in Oklahoma one of those documents that I needed. Lo and behold, I saw the chain where you look in the corner and says like, “When recorded, return to,” and on all of them, it’s Orion. I reached out to Orion and said, “It looks like you did the assignment of land contract on this for Transportation Alliance Bank. Can you create the allonge for this?” They typically said, “Yes, let us get the permission and we will create it for you.” That’s another benefit I like about using Orion is they create a lot of these docs if something’s missing. They can easily go recreate it for you. One thing I will mention for new people, Orion is a collateral storage company. You typically have to have five-plus loans with them before they let you on board.
I do have the ProTitle report and that is being extremely useful only because we have many lenders involved in this. One of the questions I had was if you found out that say lender number three and four, the documents were recorded in reverse order, say three was recorded first and two was recorded later. All the other documents, four, five, six, seven got recorded after. I am at a position where I’m boarding these loans with Franco and having him send the demand letters and start the eviction process in Michigan. For Mississippi, I was hoping to go to bid for eviction. That’s why I’m trying to get all the paperwork to do that. My question is do I go back and re-record everything in two, three, four, five, six, seven order?
Typically, you can do what’s called a corrective assignment.
What gives them their order is the date they’re recorded. In strict terms, you can’t redo it. Now that you have a lawyer engaged, I would follow their instructions about what needs to be done because when you’re underway with legal procedures, it dictates what is required. You certainly don’t want to do anything extra. You will have expense with the attorney anyway going through this process. You don’t want to be spending extra money doing things. Sometimes they are but generally, I find not in states that don’t require it. Believe me, Window Rock does as little as possible and whatever is the cheapest, that’s what they do.
I would also talk to Orion and ask them, “These were recorded out of order,” because you are going to have to get somebody to sign that document that knows they record out of order from one of the prior owners. A lot of times Orion is much better at getting something signed than Franco. Franco is an attorney who deals with this but he’s not dealing with writing the assignments or allonges. You might be able to hunt down who you need. A lot of those transfers are typically between Transportation Alliance Bank, Home Opportunity and Home Solutions. A lot of them are the same entities. It’s not as difficult sometimes to find the information.
I was terrified too that there will be one piece of paper of work wrong and it would void my claim and my ability to foreclose or do a forfeiture on things. It’s pretty surprising how few things can’t be fixed. There was one situation that Chris ran across in Ohio, which is a very strict place where the land contract was recorded before the deeds. The people creating the land contract didn’t have the right to sell the house. We discovered that was not correctable. I’ve had crazy situations in Oklahoma. I’ve never had a problem in doing a foreclosure of forfeiture with some nasty paperwork or having funky problems. What is difficult is selling house retail after it has been through this mishmash of transfers and all these different things that happen.
Oklahoma is one of those incredibly strict states. Not only do you have to have the quitclaim deeds, but they usually want a power of attorney showing that the person who signed the quitclaim deed had the authority to do it. We sold a house in Oklahoma. I don’t know if this is the norm, but when Harbor took back property from a couple, apparently in a Cash for Keys situation. They had the couple sign a quitclaim deed back to them. This was several years ago and when we tried to sell it after, someone else had been in the house. We got them to counsel their land contract. We found out that the original couple didn’t specify their marital status in their quitclaim deed. They both had the same last name but it didn’t say that they were married to each other. I was like, “They had the same name. Can we not assume?” They’re like, “No.”
It turned out it wasn’t that they were concerned about whether they were married to each other. They were concerned about whether they might have been married to other people because they both signed the deeds. I was like, “Why do we care if they were married or not? They both signed. What’s the big deal?” They’re like, “They might have been married to other people.” These title companies can think of many scenarios. I had to hunt down this woman and she was widowed at this point. If you think it’s hard to get people to take Cash for Keys even after they’ve abandoned the house. Try finding someone who’s been gone for years and get them concerned enough to go to a notary and sign the affidavit that has to be signed about their marital status. I’m never going back to Oklahoma, Chris. You can have it. You can have the whole state.
I’ve got three going on. Some questions that pop through was about Orion, “Does Orion only do collateral reviews?” I’m not sure. I don’t believe so. It’s a question I can ask them. I’m going to have a call with them. Another one came through is, “Does John only sell CFDs?” It depends. Most of the sellers that John represents or brokers, sell CFDs. A few of them will have some notes as well. I know Kish North from Portoli. Sometimes John sells those, which are notes. I know SN just released and I saw those assets. They’ve been passed around a lot. That’s for many numerous reasons. John sells different things. “What does Orion charge for collateral review and boarding?” It’s $45 for them to review both files. Often the intake, they charge a minimum $10 charge per month. I have 70-plus files with them. It’s $0.25 per file. They charged me $10 a month or it’s $25 because I have 75 files or whatever it is.
It’s $0.25 per file or per note and a minimum of $10. It’s very cost-effective. I had to send the originals for this Oklahoma stuff to the attorneys so it can get recorded. If it was me and I was keeping my collateral, it’s not often I can get to the Post Office or putting stuff in the mail. I send the email to them and they come back an hour later and say, “FedEx with tracking number and copying the attorney on it, it’s already out the door.” It’s $20, which for me to drive to the Post Office and do everything and so forth, it’s well-worth my time to pay them $20 than me to run around to the Post Office to get there.
I did buy a note from John. It can happen. I had this terrible little house in Birmingham that I bought as a performing note. I’ve tried this many times. You buy a performing note and then the new owner never sees a payment after that. That’s exactly what happened with this. I ended up foreclosing. People had looked at the house for me. No one thought there was anything wrong with it. I even had a property manager go and look at it and tell me what it would rent for once I fixed it up. When I had the preservation company go, they looked a little closer and they were like, “There’s not any point in fixing this because the exterior walls, which had wood cladding on them were either termite-eaten or general rot inside. We could push these walls out with our hands. We’re not going to because we don’t want the roof to fall on us. This is a teardown.”If you make a call to a borrower and someone else answers, you can't reveal that there is a debt and that you are the debt collector. Click To Tweet
It truly is for me because I live in Philadelphia and the house is in Alabama. I’m not going to preside over a complex renovation and restoration of the house. After asking what does it cost to demolish a house, the little house is falling over anyway. It occurred to me that I should sell it. I don’t want to try and fix it. It has still got some integrity to it. I put it up for sale on Facebook Marketplace. I offered it for $100 under the title, “This house sucks so you can have it for less than a price of a new iPhone.” I had such a weekend interacting with people who are interested in buying a $500 house. The bottom line is I sold it for more than $500 on a quitclaim deed. I didn’t even have to pay the taxes for 2019 so far.
I’ve got one that I may end up acquiring as part of this pool. There’s one asset in there that has a house that needs to come down. It’s a toss-in and it needs to be knocked down. I was curious if you’ve got pricing for a demo, but my thought process was I was going to try and top it one more and put it on Craigslist to say, “Need something to destroy? Come demo my house.”
Chris was very helpful. He suggested I call the fire department and ask if they wanted to burn it down. I think it’s a little too close to the other houses, which are all wood construction. It’s intentional burning of things in Alabama. I want to go on record, that is the second house that I’ve now lost money on. St. Louis and Birmingham, I see you. I’m not happy but it was very entertaining. The guy who bought it wants to learn notes and he’s now our audience. That doesn’t look that bad. “I should show you my little tear down since we’re doing a show and tell.” “What’s it made out of?” “It almost looks like a gingerbread house.”
Are there any other questions that people have come through on CFDs? Another thing with CFD that I’m learning that I will have to share. We may have to bring Franco on as well at some point because he’s got a lot of experience. I’m dealing with somewhere where the borrower is deceased. I’ve got four of them where the borrowers are deceased. One, there was no will. One, we haven’t been able to get in contact with. They sent a check for $3,800 in for reinstatement. It’s a nice one. You can get a full statement from something like that. Another one, where the wife was on the land contract and one where the wife wasn’t on the land contract. I’m trying to figure all that out.
If a spouse is on the land contract that it automatically, in the case of the death of a spouse, is now that person’s. We were talking about community property and the way deeds are written. There are two different possibilities. One is that two people are on a deed, one of them dies by right of survivorship, it gives them automatically full ownership. Whether it’s not right of survivorship, the person who has died, their share of the land contract or the deed goes to the heirs, whatever the will says. That may or may not mean that their spouse alone now has full ownership. You reminded me of something important to remind everybody else about. When Chris was contacted by the relatives of the person who died and they wanted to discuss the loan, what did you say, Chris?
I asked if there was a will and if there was a death certificate. She had the death certificate and I saw on public records that the guy passed away, but they didn’t have a will. I was like, “Unfortunately, I can’t discuss the property with you because by law, I can’t.” On the flip side, it was one of those things where I said, “The attorney will be sending something to the property for proper notice and so forth.” I know when I lost a parent, when mail started coming in their name, the first thing that we did is we opened it to see what it said. Eventually, I couldn’t speak to him about it, but he’s going to get more information from it if he opens the mail that was sent to his father.
This is like the episode we did about talking to borrowers. If you make a call to a borrower and their spouse or their adult child or their coworker or anyone else answers, you can’t even reveal that there is a debt and that you are the debt collector. You can’t talk to anyone at all other than the actual borrower. That’s very important.
Patty, I will tell you what I bid on Yazoo. Are you ready?
I’m ready, but I’m nervous.
I bid $14,000 and at the time he countered at $17,000. I didn’t accept it.
That’s not bad. I got it for $15,500.
You beat them down. He would have paid $17,000.
I would have paid $15,500 for that.
It’s was under bankruptcy at the time. Did you know?
Yes, that’s why I wanted it.
Fifteen days later, the bankruptcy got dismissed. There are tax certificates on it worth $3,700. There’s that. It’s almost the same now because I still have to do the certificates.
You wouldn’t have had to do the title certificates too.
I had them too. What was the UPB on that one, Patty, or total payoff? I can’t recall.
I will look into it.
Somebody has asked, “Is it required to send a monthly notice to the borrower if you have forced place insurance on the property?” No. From my understanding, at the beginning when you are putting the insurance on, you send a very official letter that you can get from your insurance company. That is the notification letter letting them know that because you don’t have proof of insurance, you’re putting insurance on there and they are able and should get their own insurance to have better coverage at probably a better price. Thirty days later, you send another notice, both notices ask them to submit proof of insurance. If the second notice goes and they don’t, then you can charge the insurance amount to the loan and you don’t have to continue sending them notices. That’s two notices and done.
It’s interesting though because Madison does send the borrowers proof of insurance if you have them. Madison collects escrow from me. Madison does send them letters for proof of insurance.
Yeah, but not monthly.
I don’t believe it’s monthly. It might be quarterly.
What do you say? Do they want ongoing proof of insurance? Do they want it submitted over and over again? Madison said they only send if you get the insurance through them. They keep a rating. If you have insurance from someone else, you do not have to send a monthly notice.
We had JB Lloyd. When I create the insurance, I create an insurance declaration or whatever it is, I send that to Madison. I know Madison does send that to the borrower and they do the escrow.
You can generate a notification that even if you’re paying monthly on JB Lloyd, they generate an annual premium and that will get charged immediately to the loan. If the people have their insurance, which in my experience never happens. A lot of borrowers feel like, “Thanks for the insurance. You don’t ever get the money back because I don’t know if I’m cynical or I haven’t been in this business long enough, but no one’s ever paid off their loan. There’s no, “Here’s your insurance money at the end.” I find it very hard to believe that I’m going to get an extra $5,000 after fifteen years of paying for their insurance.” I guess it could happen.We're all helpless in the face of badly kept files and incomplete files. Click To Tweet
The other thing Patty asked about was if anyone has a borrower in prison. “Did you ever have a CFD where one of the borrowers is in prison?” I have one in prison. I did have a note where the gentleman was in prison for hiring two hitmen to murder his wife. I’ve had that and I do have a borrower as well and we’re in the process of doing the forfeiture on that. I got a certified letter in the mail that they didn’t serve her and I sent it to the attorney. I’m like, “You may not have served her but I think she’s in prison and stuff so you’re going to retry.”
What do they do if your borrower is in prison and can’t come to court or whatever?
We struck a Cash for Keys deal. He needs to get his wife who was in prison to sign the Cash for Keys and he said he could. That’s what we’re trying to wrap up because I’ve already pretty much paid for him to file the suit. I told him if I don’t have it in the next week or so, the case is over. I’ve spent all the money on legal so the Cash for Keys deal was based upon me not having to drop all this money on legal. We will see how it pans out.
Circling back to paperwork issues, Window Rock or it was Harbor in this case. These files, it’s very troubling in a way that we make purchase decisions based on the electronic file of the collateral. You and I bought a vacant house in Oklahoma. We got the file and there was a cancellation of land contract in it. We thought we had a free and clear house. We set about to start selling it only to find out that there was a complete another set of borrowers who after the land contract was canceled with the first couple, they resold it to another couple. None of that information, the application, the land contract, none of that paperwork on this second set of borrowers was even in the electronic file.
It was only when the big, fat, hard file came to me. We then had to track down a very young couple that hadn’t even been married at the time they signed the land contracts. They had a very bitter split up. We’re trying to find them and trying to get them both to sign. That was crazy. This is why I do have attorneys with my purchases. I don’t always have attorneys look at the files because I feel confident enough in my ability to see unless there’s something unusual or the title report flags a situation like there’s no satisfaction of a previous mortgage or something like that. When I have JV deals, I do have an attorney to do everything properly. I do have an attorney to look at the file. We’re all helpless in the face of badly kept files and incomplete files. You still don’t know until you get the hard file like you’re saying, there was a file missing from your hard file. It’s crazy.
I saw somewhere that you see the assignment of land contract that Window Rock issued to another entity like a month before you’re going to buy it and then you go back and say, “You already sold this loan?” They’re like, “No, that’s not valid anymore.”
There’s also that Western Alliance that bank has some corporate reason. They don’t deed it to Western Alliance, but they do an assignment of the land contract to Western Alliance. I have no idea why this is done, but I’ve seen it over and over again. It’s not real. It’s like an internal thing. You are buying it from Home Opportunity, Camelback, Western Alliance or whoever it is.
Somebody asked a question way out in the left-field compared to what we’ve been discussing, “What is the Excel format for performing note and figuring out the yield you want? Is it twelve top months times payments divided by the price?” No. Gail, you should know this. You sent me the tape with this formula in it.
I did but I didn’t commit it to memory. Let’s hand this out because it’s a little tricky to explain if we’re not all hunched over our Excels.
It is the present value formula in Excel.
It’s taking your calculator as everybody does as a financial calculator on your phone and you put in the values and spits out the present value. It’s putting that calculator into an Excel document.
It’s the present value and then you pick the interest rate that you want. What percent of return do you want? If you want 12%, it would be 0.12 divided by twelve because it’s 12% for a year and it’s a monthly payment stream. The next one is the number of periods. What is the term of the loan? Let’s say there are 100 payments left. The third is the payment, which would be a negative number. Here’s the thing with the payment that I do. If they’re paying $300 a month, I take out the servicing costs. Let’s say my servicing costs is $20 a month, I make it $280. That’s your true return because you are going to have those servicing costs. When you’re dealing with loans that are only $150, those servicing costs will eat up a good percentage of that. Those are the three things. The future value is zero because it will be paid off.
We’re about to put out a tape. Everyone should sign up at GoodDeedsNoteInvesting.com if you would like to receive the tape. Why don’t we send out the tape with the NPER and other formulas in there and everybody can look at it?
We can put it in there, “Based on a 12% return. Here’s what the price would be.” It makes it as easy as possible for people.
It’s already in there. You didn’t see it. I put it at the bottom.
When we send out notes, we don’t usually put it in the bottom.
We should leave it there because if people are making offers, it’s a handy reference to see what at 12% yield what that price is, at 15% yield what that price is so you can get the middle maybe.
That’s your goalposts. It’s probably somewhere in between there is where you want to be.
Chris has dragged me kicking and screaming into the world of math formulas and Excel documents. Someone has told me how frightened she was of Excel formulas. I’m like, “They are a little weird when you’re getting started, but they make your life easier once you screw up the courage to do it.” I’m sure Patty’s laughing because she’s an engineer and like Chris, she loves math.
I’m excited that I was using her table and I’ve got my whole systems all working and everything and I hit the button and it worked.
Are you going to show everybody our table?
Not this time, but I will show a video of the behind the scenes sneak preview of how I can manage the number of assets very quickly and simply. I can report to everyone every month within 47 seconds to click on every single one to get it updated so it would send out an email.
Someone disturbingly told me on LinkedIn that they have not been able to sign up on our website. I asked for details, but I don’t have them yet. Do you want to talk about your condos in Florida?
We can briefly talk about those. Two condos in 55-plus community that I bought in February of 2018. One was an estate. We know it’s deceased. The other borrower was living out in Las Vegas. The plan was at the time we knew we’d probably be taking these back so we’ll bid. We’re focused on making sure we included foreclosure costs and everything. Unfortunately, what the attorney charged me was about 40% more. It took him an extra six months because of incompetence in my belief. I know somebody else had assets at the same time. One of the things I told the attorney is, “Don’t have the foreclosure sale on the same day.” It makes sense because if you had two people bidding, they wouldn’t bid against each other. They will just pick one and pick the other. We had them the same day. One of them got bid on and it was above my initial bid and they got it and stuff. I was messaging attorney like, “How long until they close?” “They have to pay within 48 hours.” Three days later I’m like, “Did they get the money?” A week goes by and he doesn’t respond. He only responds when he wants to send you a bill.
He sends me a bill and I respond, “Thanks for the bill, but could you respond to my email from a week ago since you only respond when you send me a bill?” He’s like, “I will have somebody check on that but it must have funded by now.” He comes back and he’s like, “The borrower didn’t fund it.” Now we have to refile everything. I’m like, “It would have been nice if you did that a week ago when you stayed on top of this.” I’m like, “What about the other one? Because it says when I go online that the deed is ready for that.” “Let me have this person check. You’re right. The deed has been ready for over a week.” It’s one of those things where if you didn’t stay on top of this attorney, it would take 25 years to foreclose with this guy. You’d be lucky then because unless you ask, he’s like, “That’s right. We need to do that.” I’m like, “No, you’re the attorney.” I will be happy to share who it is on the list that we have for the toxicants.
I’m in the process now of one of them goes back for sale at the end of July. I have an agent who got in both of them. The one that we got back had the water heater let go in it. There are some 150 square feet units. They’re not big. The eighteen inches of drywall had been ripped out and the entire unit and the carpet and bedroom had been pulled out. It hasn’t been updated since the ‘80s. Those have beige tile, which beige tile has been around forever. The neighbor is interested in it. The neighbor’s brother wants to move there and he’d be right next door to his sister. He’s a handyman so he could take care of it. Fingers crossed on that one. The ballpark price that we would sell it for would still net a good probably 30% return. We’d still be good. The other one doesn’t need a lot of work. The bathroom needs a little bit of work. I’d put new cabinets in the kitchen and stuff. The contractor told me it would be about $30,000. They started painting and flooring and the bedroom. They rip out some vanities and kitchen cabinets and put in cabinet countertop. I don’t know where he got $30,000 from, but I’m looking at getting some pricing on that one. My goal would be to have somebody do both of them. The ARV, if we fix them up is north of $60,000 to $70,000. Based on where I’m in them for, I’ve got to put some money into them and look to either also owner-finance them or possibly put them in rentals as well.Never think that what you have doesn't have value and that it can't be sold. Click To Tweet
Unfortunately, Patty left. I was going to ask her what she’s going to do with her farm/forest.
Gail, do you have any final thoughts?
I have a loud snoring dog. Thank God they didn’t say anything on this episode. I do apologize to everyone that they drowned out in key moments. I have a new plan. Whenever they start, I’m going to mute myself and I will stop talking and Chris knows to take it from there.
My final thoughts are I’ve got to give props to the St. Louis Blues who beat my Boston Bruins. I’m a Boston sports fan having been raised in Massachusetts. We’ve had a very successful run of weight in sports. You can’t win them all.
You want them all but you can’t have them all.
It’s good to see St. Louis win their first Stanley Cup. I was hoping I would have had that note on the agreement because what I showed about that knockdown. It’s in St. Louis and it’s perfect like, “Celebrate the cup by knocking this house down.”
Particularly, it would be from a Massachusetts boy, it would be very gratifying to them.
I got this bad idea to put on Craigslist to say, “Bruins fan, I need someone to demo a house for me.”
That’s a row house. Isn’t it attached to the house next to it?
It’s not. It’s detached.
Still, people should not be wailing away. I have a little stick. I have the little wooden house of the three little pigs that the wolf could blow down by huffing and puffing. Yours is not that kind of house.
We built our house and we demolish the house that was here before us. That was the greatest day. The excavator comes and the dump trucks come. It sliced right through it.
You’re like Shiva the destroyer. Shame on you. I’d love to see a picture of that house. Was it like a bad little house?
No, it wasn’t. They updated the kitchen a few years prior. We donated everything we could in one woman moving to Africa. My wife works for an international organization. A woman who may have worked with her or whatnot, but she had come in and filled up a container. She took the garage doors, the windows, the kitchen, and the countertop as well. We had one guy come in and he took all the recess lights in the house and he ripped up the woods. They had a wooden cherry floor in it. It was a 2.25-inch wooden floor. He came and he ripped all of it up and took it. The guy was there for three days ripping this floor up. The woman took the toilet and the showerheads. She was taking all of it. That was nice because it was like, “You can have it for free because all it’s going to do is fill a dump truck and cost us more money.”
I have people already know that Habitat for Humanity has salvage stores in almost every major city. I’m rehabbing a house down South. Because there are a lot of historic homes in the area that get rehabbed, there are several salvage stores where they have doors, windows, piles and piles of flooring, metal gates and everything. Never think that what you have doesn’t have value and that it can’t be sold. I had to leave my Birmingham house intact because I was charging the king’s ransom of $500 for it. I was not able to remove anything from it. If you have a teardown and it’s got some good stuff in it, by all means, do what Chris did and let people strip it down for you and there won’t be so much to haul away. That’s a very dated design, but they upgraded things.
Those red deck where there was a big concrete patio, they built that specifically for a Koi pond. It was a Koi breeding thing that they had and they left it. We’ve lived in the house for about a year and a half because we wanted to design the house and so forth and so on. After we closed, they left it and they’re like, “Are you going to come to get this thing?” We talked to someone and they’re like, “That’s worth $2,000.” The person was like, “If this isn’t gone by the weekend, we’re going to sell this thing because someone will come to take it.” They came and got it.
It didn’t have fish in it, right?
It was empty.
They have to have the cover on it because the raccoons will eat the Koi and you have so many foxes I’m sure.
We did get a question from somebody.
That whole Western Alliance collateral file, I don’t know what that’s for. I was looking at the Western Alliance collateral file next to the regular collateral file. I thought surely this would only have an assignment in it. It will be one or two pages longer than the regular collateral file. It wasn’t, it was much longer than the regular collateral files. If it was important or if I was trying to do something legally, maybe I would delve into it or have Orion delve into it for me. I’m not going to try and figure out the madness of Western Alliance and all that.
Typically, what I’ve done in the past is they will say, “It’s an error. Please discard it.”
I had an attorney look at the file. He was like, “You’re going to need that deed to Western Alliance and then you need a deed from Western Alliance to you.” I was going to not choke in that stuff in the future. Western Alliance is fake.
I would like to thank everyone who joined us and also all who have tuned in to our show for your support. We are wrapping up our 20,000 downloads and give you an idea. That was our goal for a year and we’ve been doing this for a few months. We’ve exceeded our expectations because of you. Thank you for spreading the word out there. If you could leave us a review on iTunes and Stitcher. We will be putting out a tape on. If you are registered for the webinar or the podcast, you will be getting that 48 hours in advance. There will be some performing and nonperforming assets on it. We haven’t finalized the count yet. I’ve got to go through my assets and look at some of that to move.
If you have any trouble signing up, please let us know. It’s very hard to keep up with all these technologies. I don’t think that had anything do with the hack. We were hacked.
It may have been when we were hacked. One thing I will mention is we might be shifting from Zoom to Demio. It may be a new link, but also it will allow for multiple registrations. You don’t have to register each week. You will be able to register for five at a time or 50 of them or whatever that may be. I’m in the works on that and Gail’s laughing at me.
I thought it was for life. You sign up once and you will never get rid of us. We will always be emailing you.
You will still get the emails for notifications and stuff, but it may be a new link. For people who are on, pay attention because you might not be able to go back to find the link or whatnot.
Thanks, everybody. Go out and do some good deeds.
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